Dwarves and firearms?

Question

So I am trying to make my second faction based on minatures I have. I have a bunch with muskets, so wanted to use the Dwarven Firearms as that lets me take my flintlock rifle for 10pts each, compared to if I go with the Gunpowder Weapons where they cost 12pts each. But the problem I am running into is that I have to take the Gunpowder Weapons if I want to upgrade my firearms (I think?) as I do not have any blunderbusses, and those are the only two options to get to where I can upgrade my firearms. Am I missing something? Saving two points per model looks to be a major waist if you have to use a second trait (for exactly the same thing just at a higher cost) so I can upgrade them.

cdat19ker Vet · Accepted Answer

OK, I understand what you are saying, but I am still not seeing any advantage to the dwarven firearms. Yes it is slightly cheaper, you save 2 points per model, and maybe that is big, but with my limited experience that is not a big deal. If you want blunderbuss's then taking it solves the issue, but again this maybe because I do not have many games (also not a single miniature with a blunderbuss) but I do not see any reason to take them. So if you are trying to make Dwarven riflemen, you are better off, not taking the ability under Dwarven section and saving one trait. This just does not feel right, saying that it is there race special, but it actually more effective for other sub-races. If I want to make a rifleman, and do so as a Dwarf it will take me three traits just to unlock upgrading my firearms, and for this extra trait I save 2 points per model, but if I take it as any other sub-faction it only takes me two traits, now yes it does cost me 2 points more per model, but I do not see that making much difference, as every game I have played (none as human factions of any type) I have always had points left over that would have been enough to pay the extra points per model. So unless (very possible) I am missing something you can make a viable Melee attack unit with Dwarves (ax/hammers) but to make riflemen you are better off with a basic human. If anyone see where I am missing something I am more than willing to have it pointed out as I really do want to make my Dwarven Rifleman army, but just can not see how to make it pay for the extra trait that if I go regular human I can use to get a different trait that will be better long term than taking the same thing twice.

natfka · Answer

Dwarf comes with Species variant which allows you to take both the Dwarf 4pts and Dwarven Firearms (Armory) and combine them into a single trait. So really your entire faction could get access to the dwarven firearms a little cheaper and for a single trait selection.

So if you really want to specialize your faction into firearms and go with dwarves one way might be to go something like this.

Genetic Mutation

First Trait Selection

Dwarf 4pts: Species Variant, Increase Defense, Decrease Command

Dwarven Firearms (Armory): Flintlock Pistols 5pts, Flintlock Rifle 10pts

Second Trait Selection

Dwarven Riches 0pts: Mineral Riches 2

Environmental Adaptation

Mercantile Society 0pts: Abundant Resources 1

Mineral Abundance 0pts: Mineral Riches 1

Adaptive Advantage 4pts: Increase Ranged 1

Knowledge and Science

Chainmail (Armory): Medium Armor 10pts

Thunder Pipe (Armory): Blunderbuss 12pts

This was just done on the fly but is a good start as it grants access to more advanced firearm traits and armor traits, plus a great selection of dwarven traits to add in. You are getting an excellent reduced price for your equipment, which will literally get you several additional models on the table since your base faction model is 8pts each before equipment.

Classes: This is where I would start to specialize the classes with either heavy plate armors, mounted goat riders, infiltrators, etc.........

Id probably start off with my first class taking the Trait Feral and adding Ferocity to it for a +2 strength and then getting something cool from the Biestial Hybrid 1.

Another Class specializing in ranged weapons taking an advanced firearms. Maybe to add some range, or additional ranged skill from the weapon.

Knowing myself I like to field Scorpios, so one class dedicated to that here.

So anyways, thats just an example how I would approach a dwarven faction. Its not how I built the one I have played over the time, but I think its a great start.

cdat19ker Vet · Answer

I understand that I do not need to take the dwarf species to be a dwarf, I do not understand why if I do I am penalized? That is what I was trying to figure out. But no one in the know is able to understand what I am trying to say, I keep getting told to take the blunderbuss (something that I have zero interest in having in my army) and telling me that it is a benefit that I have to spend more talents to get the same, but not why (other than I get a blunder buss that I have no interest in and will never field in my army). I have decided to not even try to make a human army, if is it so restrictive and that is the message I am getting. I am sure that if I did I would have more questions, but I do not feel like fighting and that is what it feels like I am being forced to do, the message I am getting is you either play our way or you are doing it wrong.

versatilebeatsdj · Answer

@cdat19ker Vet as a point you do not have to take the dwarf species variant to be a dwarf. dwarf species variant is a mutation trait that is supposed to open options to you. It’s not a trait saying all dwarves must take this ability.

if you want to focus on rifles and cannons you may want to look at the knowledgeable species branch. Taking a level 1/2 in this will allow you to take both firearms and cannons as your mutation traits. Then you can spend your knowledge traits on the upgrades. if you want a truly elite force with the entire army with upgraded firearms.

cdat19ker Vet · Answer

I guess I am not being clear enough, so lets try again. One of the selling points of this game is that you can make your army with the miniatures you already have. Is this correct or not?

Assuming that the above is correct, I only have Dwarves with Rifles and Cannons, no pistols, no Scorpios, no blunderbuss, no riders, nothing else. So I want to make an army based on the miniatures that I have. Now if I am reading it correctly the Dwarves are supposed to be experts in Firearms, is this correct or not?

Again assuming that the above is correct, why is it that they are penalized for taking there racial firearms/cannons traits? By this I mean to upgraded them they have to take it again to unlock the upgrade traits.

I do understand that by going with the Dwarven racial trait you save two points per model, and maybe because I have not played many games yet (only one, but have second coming up this weekend, so hoping to have this figured out by then), but it looks like what is being said is that to play the Dwarves you either have to play as a horde army and just swarm them with numbers, or take traits twice. So maybe it is my play style is just very different from all the play testers and others on here, or maybe I am just making lots of mistakes, but so far I am finding this rule set very restrictive, and not very open to different play styles. I am really hoping that it is mistakes on my part, but based on all the replies I am getting here, either it is not my mistake or I am not explaining well what I am trying to do.

Once again, I am really hopping it is my mistake, and I can be shown where I am making it to fix it, the concept of a very open system in something I am very excited about.